Thans for the essays ! On this one, there's a debate within Buddhism , as I understand it, as to whether by shifting towards an idea that there is no self, but there are persons-as-processes, we're replacing belief in one thing that doesnt ultimately exist ... with another thing that doesn't ultimately exist either! Rob Burbea's more on this side of the argument, holding the mystical position that as long as we think something might be finally real, even a process, we still have further to go towards a letting go even of that. Any thoughts on that ?
Hi Jo, I love this question! Thank you for asking.
You're exactly right about Rob's argument. While some teachers claim that emptiness means things are process, ultimately, there's not even time. Without time, there can be no process.
I debated whether to include the section on personhood here for that reason. But I decided to keep it in. Why?
It is still more accurate and more explanatory to say that we are impermanent and interdependent persons than permanent and independent selves. It aligns with dependent arising, it better explains human behavior, and it better empowers readers who would like to change their behavior. Hopefully that feeling of empowerment comes across in the guided exercise.
I also think personhood is the compassionate teaching at this stage, 1/3 through the series. Not-self can be a tough pill to swallow all at once. Rather than asking the reader to abandon all identification, I decided to give them something more accurate to identify with. (I recall that Rob does something similar with his students with respect to awareness. He cautions them that awareness is not the ultimate, but thinks it is helpful for them to fall in love with it for a time. That's what I want readers to feel about personhood.)
Seriously, thank you for this question. I love refining my understanding, talking to (and learning from) readers about these teachings. If you have any more, I'm all ears.
That makes a lot of sense: personhood is such an accessible teaching to pick up first and enjoy the benefits of , there's a skillful means in your offering of it. I like that each essay sets out a position that can be worked with, a kind of staging post between a world where things seem real and a world where ...... well, let's see when we get there. So I'm looking forward to reading what comes next! Baby steps is definitely the way my own emptiness practice has gone. After "person as process" there's been a period of meditation which feels more like "just atoms, just energies". But after that ... the emptiness of time and matter .... eventually. Maybe! ( I followed the link here that you shared with the Towards Emptiness group on Discord, so a big thank you for that)
You're welcome! Baby steps are absolutely the way, in my opinion. Atoms, energies, time, matter--wow! I hope you get to deconstruct them all in their due time.
Also, regarding names - I actually did change my name (both first and last) from my birth name, back when I was 31. In one sense because I felt like a different "self" (after some experiences that fit into the 270 degree area of the Buddhist circle - the paranormal stuff), but moreso to have a continual reminder of the decision I'd made regarding what would be the guiding north star for my life - similar to a new Buddhist taking precepts, I suppose.
"The self is not the agent behind action; the sense of self is the product of action." You have such a unique way with words, Rey, particularly when distilling confusing points of philosophy. This clarifies so well what I've been circling re: infinite deaths and rebirths within a single human lifetime.
Skin cells renew every 2 weeks. Stomach cells last 5 days. Neurons stay with us our whole lives but even they, with time, will fade.
The term "ego death" in psychedelic spheres is at best, misunderstood, and at worst, an excuse for irresponsible behavior. At most, psychedelics let the user play with the ego.
I both agree and disagree re: psychedelics. For many, it's ego play, but I've also seen them do amazing things for depression and PTSD, when used with intention and guidance
Hey, I agree that psychedelics can do lots of good. They have for me. Weirdly, a lot of that good was on bad trips, but it took time for me to figure it out. Intention and guidance are key.
Thans for the essays ! On this one, there's a debate within Buddhism , as I understand it, as to whether by shifting towards an idea that there is no self, but there are persons-as-processes, we're replacing belief in one thing that doesnt ultimately exist ... with another thing that doesn't ultimately exist either! Rob Burbea's more on this side of the argument, holding the mystical position that as long as we think something might be finally real, even a process, we still have further to go towards a letting go even of that. Any thoughts on that ?
Hi Jo, I love this question! Thank you for asking.
You're exactly right about Rob's argument. While some teachers claim that emptiness means things are process, ultimately, there's not even time. Without time, there can be no process.
I debated whether to include the section on personhood here for that reason. But I decided to keep it in. Why?
It is still more accurate and more explanatory to say that we are impermanent and interdependent persons than permanent and independent selves. It aligns with dependent arising, it better explains human behavior, and it better empowers readers who would like to change their behavior. Hopefully that feeling of empowerment comes across in the guided exercise.
I also think personhood is the compassionate teaching at this stage, 1/3 through the series. Not-self can be a tough pill to swallow all at once. Rather than asking the reader to abandon all identification, I decided to give them something more accurate to identify with. (I recall that Rob does something similar with his students with respect to awareness. He cautions them that awareness is not the ultimate, but thinks it is helpful for them to fall in love with it for a time. That's what I want readers to feel about personhood.)
Seriously, thank you for this question. I love refining my understanding, talking to (and learning from) readers about these teachings. If you have any more, I'm all ears.
That makes a lot of sense: personhood is such an accessible teaching to pick up first and enjoy the benefits of , there's a skillful means in your offering of it. I like that each essay sets out a position that can be worked with, a kind of staging post between a world where things seem real and a world where ...... well, let's see when we get there. So I'm looking forward to reading what comes next! Baby steps is definitely the way my own emptiness practice has gone. After "person as process" there's been a period of meditation which feels more like "just atoms, just energies". But after that ... the emptiness of time and matter .... eventually. Maybe! ( I followed the link here that you shared with the Towards Emptiness group on Discord, so a big thank you for that)
You're welcome! Baby steps are absolutely the way, in my opinion. Atoms, energies, time, matter--wow! I hope you get to deconstruct them all in their due time.
If you found personhood a helpful teaching, I like the way Jay Garfield talks about it in this recorded lecture: https://youtu.be/J7SdI8goFCE?si=0yRgYMrtohuoFf09&t=1093
Also, regarding names - I actually did change my name (both first and last) from my birth name, back when I was 31. In one sense because I felt like a different "self" (after some experiences that fit into the 270 degree area of the Buddhist circle - the paranormal stuff), but moreso to have a continual reminder of the decision I'd made regarding what would be the guiding north star for my life - similar to a new Buddhist taking precepts, I suppose.
"The self is not the agent behind action; the sense of self is the product of action." You have such a unique way with words, Rey, particularly when distilling confusing points of philosophy. This clarifies so well what I've been circling re: infinite deaths and rebirths within a single human lifetime.
Skin cells renew every 2 weeks. Stomach cells last 5 days. Neurons stay with us our whole lives but even they, with time, will fade.
The term "ego death" in psychedelic spheres is at best, misunderstood, and at worst, an excuse for irresponsible behavior. At most, psychedelics let the user play with the ego.
Great read as always Rey!
I both agree and disagree re: psychedelics. For many, it's ego play, but I've also seen them do amazing things for depression and PTSD, when used with intention and guidance
Hey, I agree that psychedelics can do lots of good. They have for me. Weirdly, a lot of that good was on bad trips, but it took time for me to figure it out. Intention and guidance are key.